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	<title>Comments on: Gommorah</title>
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	<link>http://ruthlessculture.com/2008/11/04/gommorah/</link>
	<description>Jonathan McCalmont's Criticism</description>
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		<title>By: giovanni</title>
		<link>http://ruthlessculture.com/2008/11/04/gommorah/#comment-31</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[giovanni]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 03:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruthlessculture.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-31</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course, Jonathan &amp; Maestromuro, it&#039;s about the appearence of virtue. The latin &#039;figura&#039;, which passed identical in italian, means &#039;appearence&#039;, and is connected with &#039;fingere&#039;, which means &#039;to pretend&#039; - so you&#039;re right. I might be severe, but for the majority of italian people ethics IS a matter of appearence, of self-projection into others&#039; minds. But i must say, also, that ethics itself has to deal with appearence. &#039;Ethical&#039; is a person, an act, whatever, that could and should be taken as an example - so, in a very strict sense, it is the projection of an intention through a behaviour. I don&#039;t want to be far too philosophical, but that expression (fare una bella figura) could really summarize the spirit of my country, and I think that both Saviano and Garrone succeded in that summary. At the other pole of the problem stands, powerful and terrifying, Elio Petri&#039;s &#039;Investigation on a citizen above suspicion&#039;, which marks the other side of ethics and appearence in a definitive way.

Giovanni]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, Jonathan &amp; Maestromuro, it&#8217;s about the appearence of virtue. The latin &#8216;figura&#8217;, which passed identical in italian, means &#8216;appearence&#8217;, and is connected with &#8216;fingere&#8217;, which means &#8216;to pretend&#8217; &#8211; so you&#8217;re right. I might be severe, but for the majority of italian people ethics IS a matter of appearence, of self-projection into others&#8217; minds. But i must say, also, that ethics itself has to deal with appearence. &#8216;Ethical&#8217; is a person, an act, whatever, that could and should be taken as an example &#8211; so, in a very strict sense, it is the projection of an intention through a behaviour. I don&#8217;t want to be far too philosophical, but that expression (fare una bella figura) could really summarize the spirit of my country, and I think that both Saviano and Garrone succeded in that summary. At the other pole of the problem stands, powerful and terrifying, Elio Petri&#8217;s &#8216;Investigation on a citizen above suspicion&#8217;, which marks the other side of ethics and appearence in a definitive way.</p>
<p>Giovanni</p>
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		<title>By: maestromuro</title>
		<link>http://ruthlessculture.com/2008/11/04/gommorah/#comment-30</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maestromuro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 12:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruthlessculture.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-30</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the enlargement, Giovanni. I accept your point with this qualification, that you&#039;re kinder to the general run of humanity than we deserve. I note the rueful tone of your &#039;sometimes... sometimes&#039; and I share it.  Most of us, after all, are content enough with the appearance of virtue. A clean shirt and a smile pass for goodness, robes and furred gowns hide all, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the enlargement, Giovanni. I accept your point with this qualification, that you&#8217;re kinder to the general run of humanity than we deserve. I note the rueful tone of your &#8216;sometimes&#8230; sometimes&#8217; and I share it.  Most of us, after all, are content enough with the appearance of virtue. A clean shirt and a smile pass for goodness, robes and furred gowns hide all, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan M</title>
		<link>http://ruthlessculture.com/2008/11/04/gommorah/#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan M]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruthlessculture.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-29</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi Giovanni :-)

Isn&#039;t it about the outward projection of virtue though?

so the Camorra might give money to people whose relatives are doing time or who are dead because it makes them look like good and virtuous people, but at the same time, out of public view, they are utterly immoral.

I think the Sopranos dealt with this idea very nicely (and Mad Men definitely does too).  It sees society as a judgmental place... so you look good, you are wel dressed, you have the wife and kids and the big car but behind closed doors you&#039;re fucking prostitutes and selling drugs.

It&#039;s not just a style thing, you&#039;re quite correct, but isn&#039;t it more about the appearance of virtue than actual virtue?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Giovanni :-)</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t it about the outward projection of virtue though?</p>
<p>so the Camorra might give money to people whose relatives are doing time or who are dead because it makes them look like good and virtuous people, but at the same time, out of public view, they are utterly immoral.</p>
<p>I think the Sopranos dealt with this idea very nicely (and Mad Men definitely does too).  It sees society as a judgmental place&#8230; so you look good, you are wel dressed, you have the wife and kids and the big car but behind closed doors you&#8217;re fucking prostitutes and selling drugs.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not just a style thing, you&#8217;re quite correct, but isn&#8217;t it more about the appearance of virtue than actual virtue?</p>
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		<title>By: giovanni</title>
		<link>http://ruthlessculture.com/2008/11/04/gommorah/#comment-26</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[giovanni]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruthlessculture.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-26</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I meant &#039;observation&#039;, not &#039;suggestion&#039;...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant &#8216;observation&#8217;, not &#8216;suggestion&#8217;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: giovanni</title>
		<link>http://ruthlessculture.com/2008/11/04/gommorah/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[giovanni]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruthlessculture.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-25</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A very small linguistic suggestion: &#039;fare una bella figura&#039; is not just a matter of &#039;good-lookingness&#039;. It involves an ethic (sometimes, sometimes...) connection to one&#039;s behaviour. So, it&#039;s not about being handsome, but about being virtuous. 

Giovanni]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very small linguistic suggestion: &#8216;fare una bella figura&#8217; is not just a matter of &#8216;good-lookingness&#8217;. It involves an ethic (sometimes, sometimes&#8230;) connection to one&#8217;s behaviour. So, it&#8217;s not about being handsome, but about being virtuous. </p>
<p>Giovanni</p>
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		<title>By: maestromuro</title>
		<link>http://ruthlessculture.com/2008/11/04/gommorah/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maestromuro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 21:07:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruthlessculture.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-24</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re the second person to suggest it. I&#039;ll have to check it out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re the second person to suggest it. I&#8217;ll have to check it out.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan M</title>
		<link>http://ruthlessculture.com/2008/11/04/gommorah/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan M]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruthlessculture.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-23</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi William --

I&#039;m in the same boat.  I got rid of my aerial about three years ago and I have never regretted it.  I have The Wire on DVD but I am sure that it can be found on the net too :-)

As to whether this constitutes &#039;watching television&#039; is a question of semantics but if you&#039;re capable of watching films on DVD then I think it might be worth your while taking a look at The Wire.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi William &#8211;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m in the same boat.  I got rid of my aerial about three years ago and I have never regretted it.  I have The Wire on DVD but I am sure that it can be found on the net too :-)</p>
<p>As to whether this constitutes &#8216;watching television&#8217; is a question of semantics but if you&#8217;re capable of watching films on DVD then I think it might be worth your while taking a look at The Wire.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: maestromuro</title>
		<link>http://ruthlessculture.com/2008/11/04/gommorah/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maestromuro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 12:27:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruthlessculture.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-20</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I hate to say it Jonathan, but I don&#039;t have a TV. When I did I only had the Irish stations. I&#039;m not a luddite or anything, but I just hate advertising.
I didn&#039;t see The Caiman, but when my life settles a bit I&#039;m going for the DVD. Should see Quiet Chaos in the next few days though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to say it Jonathan, but I don&#8217;t have a TV. When I did I only had the Irish stations. I&#8217;m not a luddite or anything, but I just hate advertising.<br />
I didn&#8217;t see The Caiman, but when my life settles a bit I&#8217;m going for the DVD. Should see Quiet Chaos in the next few days though.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan M</title>
		<link>http://ruthlessculture.com/2008/11/04/gommorah/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan M]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 11:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruthlessculture.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-19</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[William --

  I completely agree (and that&#039;s a fine review by the way).  I think it will be very difficult, going forward, to take another gangster film seriously given how thoroughly Saviano and Garrone have de-mythologised and de-romanticised the image of the gangster.

  Interestingly, I think The Wire was nowhere near as effective at this.  Whereas most of the Wire&#039;s targets are hit quite cleanly (the corruption of labor, the gaming of the school system), it struggles to put across the idea that the capitalist drug dealer is a bad thing.  Stringer Bell is seen as a hero by many Wire fans as I think The Wire keeps up a distinction between corrupt mainstream capitalism and corrupt illegal capitalism that really should not exist.  I don&#039;t think that was necessarily intentional, The Wire is very fond of talking about the systems of capitalist oppression, but I think it&#039;s a point they struggle to get across when compared to the effortlessness of the film.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William &#8211;</p>
<p>  I completely agree (and that&#8217;s a fine review by the way).  I think it will be very difficult, going forward, to take another gangster film seriously given how thoroughly Saviano and Garrone have de-mythologised and de-romanticised the image of the gangster.</p>
<p>  Interestingly, I think The Wire was nowhere near as effective at this.  Whereas most of the Wire&#8217;s targets are hit quite cleanly (the corruption of labor, the gaming of the school system), it struggles to put across the idea that the capitalist drug dealer is a bad thing.  Stringer Bell is seen as a hero by many Wire fans as I think The Wire keeps up a distinction between corrupt mainstream capitalism and corrupt illegal capitalism that really should not exist.  I don&#8217;t think that was necessarily intentional, The Wire is very fond of talking about the systems of capitalist oppression, but I think it&#8217;s a point they struggle to get across when compared to the effortlessness of the film.</p>
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		<title>By: maestromuro</title>
		<link>http://ruthlessculture.com/2008/11/04/gommorah/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[maestromuro]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 09:59:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ruthlessculture.wordpress.com/?p=31#comment-18</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jonathan, I reviewed the book over at www.threemonkeysonline.com but I&#039;m still chewing over the relationship between the film and the book. I think in both cases the courage is astonishing. There&#039;s nothing in either that will endear either Saviano or Garrone to the Camorra, not in the way The Godfather became part of the Sicilian Mafia&#039;s ideal self-image. The film and book are gestures of insurrection.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan, I reviewed the book over at <a href="http://www.threemonkeysonline.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.threemonkeysonline.com</a> but I&#8217;m still chewing over the relationship between the film and the book. I think in both cases the courage is astonishing. There&#8217;s nothing in either that will endear either Saviano or Garrone to the Camorra, not in the way The Godfather became part of the Sicilian Mafia&#8217;s ideal self-image. The film and book are gestures of insurrection.</p>
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